tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post4108418363716426180..comments2024-02-10T02:14:39.898-05:00Comments on Buckeye Surgeon: The surgeon as neophyte torturerJeffrey Parks MD FACShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-27709035674207385612009-05-11T06:52:00.000-04:002009-05-11T06:52:00.000-04:00Anon-
Nicely put.Anon-<br />Nicely put.Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-84448755927669566932009-05-10T14:23:00.000-04:002009-05-10T14:23:00.000-04:00Regardless who is at helm, the argument is dual-si...Regardless who is at helm, the argument is dual-sided.<br /><br />Dr. Chen, as Nemsova stated, merely tried to point out that <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desensitization_(psychology)" REL="nofollow">habituation</A> (a widely recognized phenomenon) has the potential for good (surgery) and evil (torture).<br /><br />Dr. Parks and most commentators here deem such a comparison grossly inappropriate. Surgeons, after all, wedge scalpel (it's not even called a knife) to ease suffering and preserve life. To them, it's as if drawing parallel between horse and greyhound on ground that both run on four legs.<br /><br />Both arguments are valid, in my opinion, even though the two parties seem to speak on different frequencies. Our opinions (and by extension, world perception) are the reflection of our life experience, and there are time when we can agree to disagree.<br /><br />As for Frank's wise*ss remarks, he's somewhere between Mars and the Moon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-83273728869776111882009-05-10T08:22:00.001-04:002009-05-10T08:22:00.001-04:00frank--i know that you're just trying to entertain...frank--i know that you're just trying to entertain with your comments...but habituation was the theme not surgical incisions as torture~~nnemsovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17363251836593530505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-68266863198562569012009-05-10T08:22:00.000-04:002009-05-10T08:22:00.000-04:00frank--i know that you're just trying to entertain...frank--i know that you're just trying to entertain with your comments...but habituation was the theme not surgical incisions as torture~~nnemsovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17363251836593530505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-53326388424264853382009-05-08T19:28:00.000-04:002009-05-08T19:28:00.000-04:00Might have to give you this one, Buckeye...was thi...Might have to give you this one, Buckeye...was thinkin back to the first IV I started, 14g on a young guy with a Sickle Cell crisis..."Torture" describes it pretty well....<br /><br />FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-77469308011850891662009-05-08T16:20:00.000-04:002009-05-08T16:20:00.000-04:00we disagreewe disagreenemsovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17363251836593530505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-69575585809183023052009-05-08T15:29:00.000-04:002009-05-08T15:29:00.000-04:00Nemsova-
I'm glad you enjoyed the article. But to...Nemsova-<br />I'm glad you enjoyed the article. But to me, there are thousands of better ways than torture to illuminate the gradual habituation process that occurs during surgical training. It's a weak link at best. Like I said before, might as well compare a surgeon to the serial killer who progressively becomes less squeamish, more efficient with each kill. It's almost as if Dr Chen is exploiting the recent torture revelations in order to lend interest to a topic that is actually interesting enough on its own (how a surgeon learns to detach himself from the violence/pain he must inflict in order to make someone feel well). It's an unnecessary move, I think.Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-21351804856865381632009-05-08T10:55:00.000-04:002009-05-08T10:55:00.000-04:00buckeye and friends, it's not a comparison between...buckeye and friends, it's not a comparison between torture and surgery. it' a comment about habituation. about how seemingly "nice/regular" guys, like the chain of people involved from top bottom, including the memmo authors, and everyone who helped execute the orders, became habituated to somthing awful, horrendous, terrible. the author uses the comparison of everyone who assisted the nazis in ww2. and yes, just a simple thing like making an incision can elicit such a thought. remember proust????? nemsovanemsovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17363251836593530505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-40406737634954455442009-05-08T09:02:00.000-04:002009-05-08T09:02:00.000-04:00I agree with you, Buckeye.I agree with you, Buckeye.rlbateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15236331355857884458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-1546830422866522352009-05-08T07:34:00.000-04:002009-05-08T07:34:00.000-04:00What torture?What torture?ParatrooperJJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-17290118310676671002009-05-08T02:31:00.000-04:002009-05-08T02:31:00.000-04:00Sensationalism at best.
Would one equate chef to ...Sensationalism at best.<br /><br />Would one equate chef to butcher?HMShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17168620011502808236noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-58519365184566743572009-05-07T23:43:00.000-04:002009-05-07T23:43:00.000-04:00But Buckeye,
If Waterboarding a single victim resu...But Buckeye,<br />If Waterboarding a single victim resulted in saving 20 million lives, not to mention avoiding the environmental catastrophe of a thermonuclear detonation, that WOULD be Good, No?? <br />You're not being Logical.<br />Can you tell I'm excited about the new Star Trek movie??<br /><br />Drackman outAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-42473643636770414142009-05-07T22:34:00.000-04:002009-05-07T22:34:00.000-04:00Nemsova- I don't see it as an argument at all. S...Nemsova- I don't see it as an argument at all. She just points out an extraneous similarity between a profoundly heinous act and a one that is good for our health. It's like walking by a raging house fire, seeing people screaming from the top floor windows and thinking to yourself, "oh that fire, it harkens memories of the ones Grandpa used to build in the living room when I was a girl" and then just walking on by in your self-reflective way. <br /><br />I think you have to be very careful with topics such as torture/rape/murder/undeniable evil when used in the context of a short essay. Flimsy comparisons and forced analogies like the torture/surgery paradigm only serve to distract from the nature of the evil committed....Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-17793504732902058752009-05-07T22:27:00.000-04:002009-05-07T22:27:00.000-04:00So you've NEVER operated on someone without a sign...So you've NEVER operated on someone without a signed consent??<br />What about that emergency thoracotomy??<br />Its like the girl who'll sleep with you for a million dollars, you've admitted what you are, only question is the price...<br /><br />FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-84744985009547307602009-05-07T21:54:00.000-04:002009-05-07T21:54:00.000-04:00I disagree,buckeye. I thought that the comparison...I disagree,buckeye. I thought that the comparison between the two types of habituation was apt. she's not comparing surgeons to torturers, but using the trope of habituation; and showing how it can be either positive(surgery)or negative (torture). it's a subtle, effective argument.nemsovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17363251836593530505noreply@blogger.com