tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post7315340109232470121..comments2024-02-10T02:14:39.898-05:00Comments on Buckeye Surgeon: Torture DoctorsJeffrey Parks MD FACShttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-52717737984660344402009-04-24T15:37:00.000-04:002009-04-24T15:37:00.000-04:00Re: Anonymous 1:47
War is ugly and ruthless, no d...Re: Anonymous 1:47<br /><br />War is ugly and ruthless, no doubt about that.<br /><br />Humanity oughts not be. Hope that you would find consolation in knowing that humanity still provides the basis for us to rise from the ashes. Look at Europe today, for example, 64 years after it was reduced to rubble in WW2.<br /><br />Torture. Is it legal? Ethical? Effective? Essential? To those who have been there and survived, my guess is that many of them would say it's a "skill" that we wish we could unlearn.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-86916625564496788222009-04-24T13:47:00.000-04:002009-04-24T13:47:00.000-04:00You are an excellent fighter, well educated and ob...You are an excellent fighter, well educated and obviously smarter than most (i am not being flippant here). I understand your position. But I don't agree with it. <br /><br />I don't understand why you cry for people who wish to see the end of western civilization while you spit on those who are doing their best to protect it. You take the bold stand of righteousness, but fail to be strong enough to answer the question. You want to call these people POWs. I call them human trash. They self-proclaim the love of death. They speak of hatred for life. They wish to spread fear and desire the destruction of anything which does not conform to their religion. You want to give them more rights than those in the CIA. I view these documents as evidence that everything was done to obtain information which may have been otherwise withheld. It was documented and vetted through a process that was clearly conscious of the extenuating circumstances and all measures were then taken to reduce the risk of harm to the enemy. That is humane, and incredibly more than what they did to those 3,000 people in NewYork and those Jumbo-Jets. Not withstanding the brutality that they exhibit on a daily basis not only to those they profess as enemies to thier religion but also within their own culture to their women.<br /><br />OK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-19273246561779253142009-04-24T13:29:00.000-04:002009-04-24T13:29:00.000-04:00lawyers'lawyers'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-3444059681341067892009-04-24T13:27:00.000-04:002009-04-24T13:27:00.000-04:00my son would call confiscating his GameBoy as TORT...my son would call confiscating his GameBoy as TORTURE,<br /><br />MEANWHILE<br /><br />some layers would consider waterboarding someone for 300+ times NOT a form of torture.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-30372609523096975662009-04-24T12:36:00.000-04:002009-04-24T12:36:00.000-04:00This all comes down to what your definition of &qu...This all comes down to what your definition of "Torture" is. I think its something really disgusting and Painful, like getting 2,000 Volts to the testicles or listening to Hilary Clinton speak.<br />You think it's having some water tossed in your face and a caterpiller thrown in your cell..<br /> I myself underwent what some might call torture, hours of sleep deprivation, interrogation by psychopathic S&M freaks, exposure to deadly infectious diseases, its called<br /> "Med School/Residency" hmm you may be right, I WOULD like to see some of those Bastards in jail...<br /><br /> FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-17518482233009088802009-04-24T11:39:00.000-04:002009-04-24T11:39:00.000-04:00Now it's not a secret. It was secretive while...Now it's not a secret. It was secretive while we doing it though. Remember "we do not torture" from GWB? And what youre asking me about with regards to a personal threat to me or my family has no connection to state sponsored torture of detained POW's. You obviously cannot comprehend this. So please stop posting the same inane question ad nauseum. That's like saying "what would you do if you had fifteen minutes alone in a room with your brother's murderer?" All of us think we would act a certain way but that's not how we conduct ourselves in this thing called Western Civilization. There is a rule of law. Vigilante lawlessness is not allowed. The perpetrator is prosecuted and sent to jail or the elctric chair. Personal vendettas are no paradigm for how the world's greatest power ought to treat its unarmed POW's.<br /><br />Read Ali Sufan's (the lead FBI interrogator of Abu Zubaydah) op ed in the NY Times about how all the actionable intelligence from Zubaydah was gleaned via traditional FBI interrogation:<br /><br />"There was no actionable intelligence gained from using enhanced interrogation techniques on Abu Zubaydah that wasn’t, or couldn’t have been, gained from regular tactics. In addition, I saw that using these alternative methods on other terrorists backfired on more than a few occasions — all of which are still classified. The short sightedness behind the use of these techniques ignored the unreliability of the methods, the nature of the threat, the mentality and modus operandi of the terrorists, and due process."<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/opinion/23soufan.html?_r=3&ref=opinionJeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-51985017556061205862009-04-24T11:26:00.000-04:002009-04-24T11:26:00.000-04:00Its not a secret. If it was we wouldn't be able to...Its not a secret. If it was we wouldn't be able to debate this. <br /><br />So, please answer the original question; What would you do if your child was in harm's way if you had one of the bad guys in your custody? He is refusing to give you the information needed to save your child's life.<br /><br />Would you:<br /><br />A.) utilize techniques that you have damned in this post to get the information?<br /><br />B.) give the 'prisoner' hot meals and comfort, hoping that you'll be lucky enough to find your child without his information.<br /><br />Your response?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-33609084861632246672009-04-24T09:33:00.000-04:002009-04-24T09:33:00.000-04:00Opposition to a secret state sponsored torture pro...Opposition to a secret state sponsored torture program is "smug indignation"? I'm also opposed to child abuse, bank robbery, and felonious assault. I must be the most smug guy in the old US of A. <br /><br />These torture techniques are designed to elicit false concessions. Like getting Zubaydah to "admit" that Iraq had something to do with 9/11....Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-68625649158375115532009-04-24T09:24:00.000-04:002009-04-24T09:24:00.000-04:00let's all try to stay on topic, shall we?let's all try to stay on topic, shall we?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-10868745933975237572009-04-24T09:03:00.000-04:002009-04-24T09:03:00.000-04:00Far fetched?
It happens every day.
Your smug ind...Far fetched?<br /><br />It happens every day.<br /><br />Your smug indignant attitude doesn't have a place in the pragmatic world of reality. The world is filled with bad people. Smiling at them and saying "Thank you sir. May I have another?" doesn't get you anywhere but having your head chopped off. <br /><br />Making our people out to be some kind of enemy and comparing them to Nazi's makes me want to puke. These people took on the responsibility and made the tough decisions that needed to be made. <br /><br />I guess we just should let the next attack come. We should do nothing to reduce their ability to hurt us again. Maybe you should look at how precisely they attempted to prevent real harm to the enemy instead of spinning it into some Nazi crap.<br /><br />I disagree with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-9979840696478264672009-04-23T22:55:00.000-04:002009-04-23T22:55:00.000-04:00and there are at least a dozen anonymous comments ...and there are at least a dozen anonymous comments posted by at least two writers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-61339394033388879512009-04-23T21:27:00.000-04:002009-04-23T21:27:00.000-04:00http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/probes-of-bush-a...http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/probes-of-bush-administration/flashback-bushs-fbi-director-said-torture-didnt-foil-any-terror-plots/Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-85019617881558478262009-04-23T21:25:00.000-04:002009-04-23T21:25:00.000-04:00Anon-
Your reasoning is so far off base I don't kn...Anon-<br />Your reasoning is so far off base I don't know where to begin. You're talking about some sort of far fetched, personalized ticking time bomb scenario. What does that have to do with a state sponsored, systematic torture program that borrowed techniques from condemned regimes in the Kremlin and Cambodia?Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-34790026700610459642009-04-23T21:15:00.000-04:002009-04-23T21:15:00.000-04:00real life is rarely that simple.
torture --> &...real life is rarely that simple.<br /><br />torture --> "crucial intel" (Y/N?)<br /><br />do a simple role flip, you would know it's hardly that straightforward.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-12044369447403974252009-04-23T21:02:00.000-04:002009-04-23T21:02:00.000-04:00I think its very easy to sit back in our high chai...I think its very easy to sit back in our high chairs and talk about morale courage and such. Its so simple. Right? So I would like to pose this terrible thought. What would you do if someone kidnapped your little girl and you caught one of the perps? Now you want your daughter back... right? but the scum bag piece of trash just smirks and laughs at your suffrage. You now have a choice. You can take your high moral ground and let your child die, or you can put him through some controlled pain that will not actually harm him and gain the information needed to get your girl back. <br /><br />Think about that. Is it still so simple? <br /><br />I wouldn't let my child down. Would you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-62985465036450768172009-04-23T17:57:00.000-04:002009-04-23T17:57:00.000-04:00Thank you for pointing out the imbalance between t...Thank you for pointing out the imbalance between the Monica thing and torture. But I predict we won't go after anyone in the Bush/Cheney administration precisely BECAUSE of Monicagate. The impeachment cost nearly $50 million just for the special prosecutor, let alone all the government employees who had to take time out of their jobs. It also cost us emotionally. Do you know anyone who didn't feel tired and dirty when it was all over? I'm just as sick as you are about the torture, and I'm just as outraged that it was done in all our names, but I can't get excited about the idea of more years of legal proceedings and overheated headlines.<br /><br />Besides, in the end, the impeachment really was about sex. It's hard for Americans to reach a national consensus about many things, but one thing that we can all agree on is that whatever kind of sex other people have is wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-23027926732757298852009-04-23T15:12:00.000-04:002009-04-23T15:12:00.000-04:00Frank IHTC
in his true color (IHTC)Frank IHTC<br /><br />in his true color (IHTC)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-7063800998914679062009-04-23T14:36:00.000-04:002009-04-23T14:36:00.000-04:00Cheap shot with the "Herr Cheney" jab... his ances...Cheap shot with the "Herr Cheney" jab... his ancestry is English-Irish-Welsh...<br />Bush/Cheney did sumthin illegal?? and from all the Ruckus, sumthin pretty big-time, not just Gamblin' at Rick's place. Then arrest em, take it up with a Grand Jury and give em their day in court.They're out of office now, probably not to hard to find. Who's that new Sherriff in town? Hussein something?? Otherwhise STFU,<br /><br />FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-67833795711742748722009-04-23T13:38:00.000-04:002009-04-23T13:38:00.000-04:00It's a top-to-bottom process,
from policymakers ...It's a top-to-bottom process, <br /><br />from <A HREF="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/y/john_c_yoo/index.html?inline=nyt-per" REL="nofollow">policymakers</A> to practitioners.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-76020432231190210502009-04-23T13:27:00.000-04:002009-04-23T13:27:00.000-04:00Frank-
Debating the morality of abortion is a reas...Frank-<br />Debating the morality of abortion is a reasonable request. But we cannot question the LEGALITY of what Herr Cheney did...Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-65496401370055399182009-04-23T13:06:00.000-04:002009-04-23T13:06:00.000-04:00Feel sorta want to nominate you as the doc with th...Feel sorta want to nominate you as the doc with the shallowest moral standard on blogsphere, Frank.<br /><br />"Self Righteous Indignation," ok, with that too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-40478706165616791902009-04-23T12:52:00.000-04:002009-04-23T12:52:00.000-04:00Feel sorta left out without my Self Righteous Indi...Feel sorta left out without my Self Righteous Indignation Hat, so here I go.....<br /> I'll get upset about Aggressive Interrogation of Terrorists when Y'all get upset about Aggressive Termination of Pregnancies... the doctors do more than stand by during those...and I know the Supreme Court said its OK, they said the same thing about slavery 150 years ago...<br /><br />FrankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-73740781596568843522009-04-23T12:10:00.000-04:002009-04-23T12:10:00.000-04:00Dear Doctor Buckeye,
Thank you for your moral cou...Dear Doctor Buckeye,<br /><br />Thank you for your moral courage in presenting a highly controversial subject and making your own views about it known. You are likely to raise the consciousness of many medical professionals and perhaps even change the behaviour of some as they begin to become alert to questioning the boundaries of research and documentation around all types of traumatic physical action practiced upon human beings.<br /><br />Of course there are many tentacles that can be explored using medical participation in torture as the worst-case scenario. <br /><br />What do you and other medical professionals think about the questionable boundaries of invasive procedures in research hospitals as opportunities for professional advancement through research documentation and publishing? Are patients always INFORMED in their consent and active participants in deciding upon procedures and action that may be benefiting their medical team over the patient's own quality of life? Aggressive chemotherapy regimens and overtreating surgeries in cancer management are prominent examples. <br /><br />In no way can hospital supported medical treatment action be compared to torture. Yet, the psychological and physical outcome can bear chilling parallels for the patient: patient physical mutilation and maiming due to overzealous surgeries, PTSD when patients realize their medical team practiced non-disclosure of important information or even lied regarding planned procedure, and unrecoverable quality of life. <br /><br />Though policy, regulation, and law are important structures for preventing abuse in interrogation and in medical "treatment", the value and power of medical professionals communicating and discussing these matters amongst themselves cannot be underestimated.<br /><br />Thank-you for making doctor involvement in torture a talking point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-14947406887081195732009-04-23T09:23:00.000-04:002009-04-23T09:23:00.000-04:00ParaJJ-
That argument is specious and vapid. Imag...ParaJJ-<br />That argument is specious and vapid. Imagine what we could justify in the name of "training". <br /><br />Besides, the actual purpose of the SERE training was to prepare special ops guys for torture techniques designed by KGB/Khmer Rouge criminals for the purpose of eliciting FALSE CONFESSIONS from prisoners. Ask John McCain; waterboarding is torture pure and simple.....Jeffrey Parks MD FACShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15650563299849196122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2760353953251845523.post-54854222735223403482009-04-23T08:37:00.000-04:002009-04-23T08:37:00.000-04:00Anon (April 22, 2009 11:21 PM) thanks for the lin...Anon (April 22, 2009 11:21 PM) thanks for the link to the genocide information.rlbateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15236331355857884458noreply@blogger.com